[00:21] MSG: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep [00:27] Join: baudchan joined #corewars [02:11] technically there isn't a center of core [02:11] :) [02:18] this is true [02:18] when I say that I mean around the address 4000 bits away from the end of my instruction set [02:20] i understood you, just poking fun :) [02:20] lol I noticed [02:21] you could use the code for a silk copy; you just want to copy once? [02:21] yeah [02:21] I don't want to copy code [02:21] though [02:22] i know how you feel [02:22] 'course learning how it works and using it != copying [02:22] anyway that's why i didn't tell you :> [02:22] yeah [02:22] I think I know what was wrong last time [02:22] but as I said I deleted the code lol [02:23] a silk copy uses stacked processes, and it splits before it copies [02:23] so the first instruction is copied under the first executing process at the new location [02:23] 'course the timing isn't as important if you aren't making a paper (replicator) [02:23] right [02:23] which seems unlikely with an offset of 4000 :) [02:24] this is an oversized dwarf [02:24] idk I am still learning [02:25] like nothing I've built thus far can get rid of even the most basic imp [02:25] but I am learning the opcodes ^_^ [02:25] this is more important at first [02:26] yeah [02:26] i guess a guy doesn't start out with Son of Vain or something [02:26] ;) [02:26] i'm a noob too [02:27] lol [02:28] hey miz [02:29] what warrior scores well against He Scans Alone? [02:29] oh also [02:29] about the wilmoo thing [02:29] am I supposed to load them all or one at a time? :o [02:29] what program are you using? [02:30] actually [02:30] doesn't wilmoo come with a batch file? [02:30] put the required exes in the right place and use that to bench things, probably simplest [02:30] I am using pmars? [02:31] actually I am using OS X [02:32] pmars would be the word i was looking for [02:32] it has a command line switch to run a tournament, which is what you want [02:33] and i think the wilmoo batch file uses pmars [02:33] guess not [02:33] it was wilkies that had it [02:34] okay [02:37] i don't know pmars .. and its not on this computer [02:37] just read the command line switches, it's not too hard iirc [02:37] i know only real redcod3rs use pmars :( [02:37] i think i wanted the inverse of that statement? [02:38] real redcoders only use pmars! [02:38] hehe [02:39] lol [02:39] i'm gonna get a tattoo that reads ----xx+ . [02:39] :P [02:40] would that make me more hardcore than ripper? [02:40] you know the "cut along here" dotted line and half-scissor that store products have? [02:42] I want that on my wrist lol [02:44] nescience: any really good stone [02:46] give me a name? [02:46] i just wanted to load something up and see what the numbers turn out like [02:47] no specific reason, but there are certain warriors that are well known and i don't known them ;) [02:47] well.. [02:49] Blacken, Vain, Candy/Pixie, Tornado, Thermite, Gigolo, Quicksilver (best anti-scanner S/I), uninvited [02:49] no, not Thermite, Torch [02:50] that's more than sufficient hehe [02:50] thanks [02:52] MSG: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [02:55] idk are there any other good MARS besides pmars? I've read about evolvers or whatever wrote in perl and stuff [02:56] but those don't seem useful to me, especially right now [02:57] baudchan: corewin [02:57] oic [02:57] windows programs are like [02:57] something I can't use [02:57] lol [02:57] exhaust and fmars are more project-oriented [02:58] project-oriented? lol [02:59] isn't fmars supposed to be faster? [03:00] quicksilver gets 55% wins [03:00] i was on a mac w [03:00] when i first discovered corewars [03:01] i forget what the hell i used though lol [03:01] over a decade ago [04:02] MSG: Quit: gn8 [06:15] MSG: Read error: Connection reset by peer [06:19] Join: Mannerisk joined #corewars [07:14] MSG: Read error: Connection reset by peer [08:36] MSG: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep [09:01] Join: baudchan joined #corewars [09:03] MSG: Client Quit [09:05] Join: baudchan joined #corewars [09:11] MSG: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep [09:48] Join: baudchan joined #corewars [10:01] MSG: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep [10:04] Join: baudchan joined #corewars [10:08] MSG: Client Quit [10:44] Join: fiveop joined #corewars [12:41] MSG: Quit: humhum [15:42] Join: Fizmo joined #corewars [16:00] Join: NorthStar joined #corewars [16:01] hi hi [16:01] hi there [16:02] ur new to corewar? [16:03] Yes, i am. A friend of mine told me about it [16:04] nice [16:04] you already wrote own warriors or still on the way to understand the redcode language? [16:19] I'm still learning the redcode language and making very simple test cases. I come from Zilog Z80 assembly. [16:19] ic [16:19] (and i went from redcode to intel 8051..) [16:51] Join: sh0ne joined #corewars [16:51] Hi [16:57] MSG: Quit: Leaving [16:58] Join: sh0ne joined #corewars [17:26] hi [17:30] MSG: Ping timeout: 240 seconds [17:42] Join: baudchan joined #corewars [17:42] hi hi [17:42] hey [17:43] hey Fiz. [17:50] hey [17:50] bvowk [17:50] how's it going? [17:52] It's going well. [17:52] I am in a decidedly gleeful mood. [17:52] and im less than [17:53] I think I am almost ready for the first trial [17:53] ;-) [17:53] sounds good. [17:55] got some new hardware, but i dont believe XP will stand switching processor + mb [17:55] so ive spent most day moving stuff aside, and i still feel im forgetting something [17:55] depends on the version. [17:55] Join: sh0ne joined #corewars [17:55] (heck, ive even remembered to copy my bookmarks) [17:56] bvowk: from amd/via/nvidia to intel/intel/ati [17:56] It depends on your version of windows.. [17:56] the volume licensed versions don't care about your hardware. [17:56] the end user copies seen to punish you. [17:56] er.. [17:56] s/seen/seek [17:57] not volume license, i didnt bother to warez a fancy version [17:59] (yeah, im evil, caaaare) [18:00] i expected that at reinstall id be installing the next windows version, but... [18:01] heh [18:02] MSG: Remote host closed the connection [18:06] Join: sh0ne joined #corewars [18:07] Join: flyduck joined #corewars [18:07] hey guys [18:07] hi hi [18:07] h [18:07] i just started corewars 2 days ago.. what are some programs that i might test my bot against in order to improve it.. ? [18:08] if that makes sense [18:08] well, there really isnt a benchmark for 2-day old warriors [18:08] MSG: Read error: Operation timed out [18:08] (even the weakest published will actually fight back) [18:09] any suggestions for what i should do to improve ? [18:09] Fizmo: yeah, we need a wet-behind-the-ears benchmark [18:10] flyduck: Code more. Ask lots of questions. Code more more. Ask people why your code isnt working. [18:10] hmm [18:10] you can code different bots and let them fight against each other [18:11] if you want a benchmark [18:11] you can find on my website [18:11] http://www.corewar.info/bench.htm [18:11] Try the Wilkies benchmark first [18:11] but it is already a quite tough one, not so easy to beat [18:13] if you like you could post your bot here and we can help you to improve [18:15] so far ive been taking published code and figuring out how it works, making minor modifications, etc [18:15] that's a good way to learn [18:15] I did also [18:15] i made a dwarf with an imp-pit on the top of it and figured out that it only works if the imp is certain offsets away from it [18:16] otherwise, they tie [18:16] yeah, in the beginning is a lot of trial'n'error [18:16] i also made a .5c scanner and have been messing around with that [18:16] brb, dinner time [18:33] back [18:44] Join: Altair joined #corewars [18:44] hi [18:44] its starting to get busy in here [18:45] which clear is effective against the chainlock imp? [18:45] chainlock? [18:45] http://users.ociw.edu/birk/COREWAR/94/HILL/chainlock02a.red [18:46] paper/imp's are extremely hard to kill, you dont have much choice other than a scanner [18:47] there is the Forgotten scanner's clear, which probably can defeat it, but not really any other clear [18:47] (maybe lucky rosegate..) [18:47] Maybe a scanner like: He Scans Alone, Recon 2 or Willow [18:48] thx. so you assume bombers do not have any chance against it? [18:48] they wont [18:49] there are some oneshots who can handle that also, like Standing on Giants or Forgotten Scanner [18:50] (did you read anything i wrote, Fiz?) [18:50] well, it depends on the final strategy [18:51] mm.......... [18:51] in case of an incendiary bomber using an anti-imp ssd-clear he should have a chance [18:51] hmm, I still thinking if I ever tried that [18:52] forgotten scanner does not have any chance against chainlock. [18:52] ohh, Mizcu, sorry, I overlooked that line with the Forgotten Scanner [18:52] mm............ [18:53] yeah [18:53] I used that clear in a bomber [18:53] Tyger of Pan Tang [18:59] that's sort of depressing...... [19:00] oh? [19:00] why? [19:01] well. that chainlock wont die :D [19:02] yeah, Neo did some extremely good defensive warriors ;-) [19:06] mm....do you think that there could be a clear which wins against chainlock or it is obvious that there is nor clear [19:06] why do you want a clear to defeat it? [19:06] making a oneshot? [19:07] I want to do it in a clear ^^ [19:07] then you simply need to choose the right clear, otherwise you will fail [19:07] well, 1.5 clears with spl, followed by 7-point spiral-clear [19:07] itll suck against everything else, but itll work [19:08] k. [19:13] ok, I will go to play some cs [19:13] * Fizmo waves [19:15] MSG: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920] [19:29] heres a questio [19:29] n [19:29] instead of writing [19:29] MOV 3, @ptr [19:29] ADD #1, ptr [19:29] could i wrote [19:29] MOV 3, >ptr [19:29] for the same effect ? [19:29] yes [19:29] yay ~_~ [19:29] im learning ! [19:30] (write, not wrote) [19:34] so [19:34] would there be no way to shorten these 2 statements to 1 using the same technique [19:34] because it's not indirect? : [19:34] scan ADD #1, ptr [19:35] ptr JMZ.F scan, 100 [19:35] you can, but then you need to store the scanned instruction somewhere else [19:35] in which case you'd be removing one line and adding another, right [19:35] eg. jmz.f 0, >1 | mov.i bomb, 100 [19:36] no, removing one line, taking use of one extra a or b-field [19:36] ah.. [19:36] (however, such a scan isnt really useful) [19:38] Join: willvarfa joined #corewars [19:38] hi will [19:38] been a long time [19:38] how goes? [19:39] greets wil! [19:40] willvarfa: although i now hold #17 on infinano with evolved warrior, which was also first of its class (class which #1 #2 and #3 are part of) [19:45] mizcu: i know its not rly useful, im still learning by experimenting with/modifying existing code [19:45] my ASM has never been the strongest either :P [19:45] tell me, does this make sense? [19:46] ;scan (.5c) [19:46] ptr JMZ.F 0, >1 [19:46] ;bomb [19:46] MOV 2, 100+ptr [19:46] JMP -1 [19:46] you just keep overwriting the same location [19:46] hmm ok, thats what i thought [19:47] Join: Fizmo joined #corewars [19:47] hi Will [19:48] so in this line jmz.f 0, >1 | mov.i bomb, 100 [19:48] is it the 1 or the 100 that gets post-incremented ? [19:48] the 100 [19:48] lines i mean [19:49] ahhh [19:49] ok ! [19:49] i thought it was the 1 [19:49] it is the value of 100 that gets incremented [19:49] just watch it in pmars/whatever and youll see [19:50] (if you havent tried debug in pmars, its not that bad, you just need to know three commands) [19:50] i just discovered the debug mode earlier [19:50] all i figured out what 's' for step [19:50] s/what/was/ [19:50] cl~@s~0,20 (clear screen, run one cycle, show lines 0-20) [19:51] r (to see current cycle and the process queue) [19:51] go (keep running until a breakpoint hits) [19:51] q ( -uit) [19:52] you can add breakpoints for the debugger by putting a ;break before the line to trigger [19:52] hi fiz [19:52] and also inside the debugger, but i dont want to add them by hand every time i need to fiddle around [19:53] is there any increment/decrement for immediate values [19:53] i.e. ++ [19:53] no [19:53] you can do nop >value but thats kinda waste [19:54] Will: haven't seen you for ages. How are you? [19:57] ok i think i just did something cool: JMZ.F 0, >1 | MOV 2, 100 | JMP -2 [19:58] 2 useful ops per 3 cycles ? [19:58] and 1 per 1 while its scanning ? [19:58] but then it turns into 1 per 3 if it hits a big block of non-zeros... [19:59] thats the way you are supposed to code [19:59] :D [20:00] (hmm.. reminds me of the microscanners PVK used to do..) [20:01] although there is a bug when i roll the code in my head [20:02] whats that? [20:02] well, it works as is [20:03] if you switch into a custom bomb, the clearing will stop working properly (it will wipe continuously, even after you are past the found opponent) [20:07] not sure whats you mean, whats a custom bomb? [20:08] dropping dat 0,0's ( = "empty" ) is not useful for very long [20:11] how come there is no preincrement ? [20:12] also, Mizcu: yeah, that makes sense, i figured as much [20:12] it was not in the original standard, and there was no need to add in the '94 [20:12] a dat 0,0 could be easily self-repaired with a JMZ scanning for it, no ? [20:12] self-repairing doesnt work, end. [20:12] interesting : o [20:13] well, something like, a JMZ scanning for it could then jump to something that moved the whole heart of your bot to somewhere else, then ? [20:13] because the complexity of the repairing program is always greater than the warrior being fixed [20:14] so why dont you need a preincrement.. [20:15] its been an interesting limitation so far [20:15] i c [20:16] i and Metcalf did think about proposing it for '08 standard, but awakening ICWS hasnt gotten much wind behind it [20:16] (reawakening) [20:22] ok i think i improved it to a .5c zeroing-bomb when it gets to a big block of non-zeros.... [20:23] scan JMZ.F 0, >ptr | ptr MOV 3, 100 | JMN -1, >(ptr+1) | JMP scan [20:24] very not sure if that will work :D [20:25] it wont [20:25] (ptr+1) would refer to the JMN instruction right? [20:25] the jmn will compile into jmn -1, >0 [20:25] so yes [20:26] would (>ptr)+1 work ? [20:26] no [20:27] is there any way to add to an indirect reference ? like the equiv. of *ptr+1 [20:27] no [20:27] i see ! [20:27] i am learning slowly but surely : ) [20:28] but you might as well just use jmn.f -1, >ptr [20:33] but wont that definitely be zero [20:33] because the MOV just zero'd it out? [20:33] ah [20:33] im again thinking with custom bombs [20:33] yeah :P [20:33] im not that advanced yet ! [20:34] i was hoping to do some sort of one-instruction look-ahead after i mov'd the zero in order to figure out whether to keep zeroing or jump back to the scanning loop [20:34] that way i'd turn it from a zero bomb that sent one every two instructions instead of one every three (because the scan loop would iterate once if i jump right back to it) [20:34] if all that made sense [20:35] english isnt my native language :P [20:35] what is your native language? [20:35] what you are trying is used by a very famous warrior, just with the custom bombs [20:35] (there are quite a few non-english corewars people) [20:36] im from sweden, have lived in the US for the past 6 months though [20:36] and we learn english there all through school [20:37] but sometimes when i start talking technical i dont know if im keeping everything in order [20:37] (dont tell that i have fooled you into thinking im native?) [20:37] haha, i couldnt tell [20:38] where are you from mizcu ? [20:38] polarbearlandia [20:39] well, jokes aside [20:39] im a Finn [20:39] neat : D [20:44] Nice fly. I'm from Canada, I was in Sweden in the spring. Nice place. [20:44] I was in Finland too. [20:45] Miz and I went for the tragically bland stuff that passes for Indian food in Finland a couple times :) [20:48] kinda hard to keep food lively with the quality of spices brought here -_- [20:48] I think it's because if the food was tasty people might start getting uppity and demand things like light in the winter ;) [20:49] hahaha [20:49] wonder when ive seen the sun last time [20:50] October? [20:50] early November, prolly [20:50] It was pretty dark when I arrived at the start of November last year. [20:51] ..not that it makes a difference to us coders.. [20:51] although i admit, ive been overusing energy drinks again [20:54] can i hide a value in the B field of an SPL statement ? [20:54] yes [21:06] curry is crap all over nordic [21:06] but any better in the states? [21:06] eh canada even? [21:15] there are some good indian places here in ann arbor, but i dont have much basis for comparison [21:21] MSG: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920] [21:27] MSG: Quit: Ex-Chat [21:34] hehe :D [21:34] i just successfully wrote a defense thing that relocates the program if it detects it's getting zero bomb'd [21:34] and it worked :D [21:34] infact it won every single game against my previous scanner/zero-bomber [21:38] hehe [21:38] im proud of myself [21:48] We have indian that will make you weep for its awesome heat. [21:52] hrm.. [21:54] nvm ! [21:54] alright time to go :D [21:55] bye all, thanks for the help, c u later ! [21:55] MSG: Quit: flyduck [22:10] Join: Mannerisk joined #corewars [22:33] MSG: